Curse

Krill · Aug 24, 2008, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Noticed the wiki build for TA balanced was modified a few days ago, with a grasping dev hammer, empathetic removal ranger, CE nec and dual stance monk.

[build=OQYTks4O5ZsAWOLMlWBf1wKAA]
[build=OgMTcZcmzxM+rnNWGVzjBxIAA]
[build=OAFSY4DTSVHCMiNCJgVCrFCAA]
[build=OwEU043BxaSNgaECE+DQg1E4F6FA]

Looks slightly more interesting than the WoD meta but I'm curious what your thoughts are on this build vs. hex pressure builds and dual monk, which still seems playable without smiter's boon.

Teh Jace · Aug 24, 2008, 08:35 AM // 08:35

pvxwiki is maintaned by ppl who have no clue

this build vs hexpressure? This build is basically an anti hex pressure (see emp on ranger, monk usually having purge signet along with pious concentration and other hex removal).

2 monks, 2 axe tards are weakened after sb nerf so with hammer warr it shouldn't be impossible to beat them. Not sure about axe though.
Instead of dlunge they are carrying bestial pounce now which is not rly worse than its predecessor.

The monk template is still a pure joke. A fortress monk. So nothing has rly changed.

|Readem| · Aug 24, 2008, 09:04 AM // 09:04

Feel free to give suggestions Jace. Since nearly everyone is running hexes lately, I merely modded the build to counter it. Purge is already listed as a common variant on the monk bar. I am interested in what you are running to counter such said gimmicks (hexway/dual RaO/zzZ; apart from pious-purge monk).

Krill · Aug 24, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

pvxwiki is maintaned by ppl who have no clue

Yes I know, but invariably many groups that copy builds direct from wiki will be running it.

I titled the thread TA balanced because it's been a long time since anyone talked about balanced builds, nothing but bitching (and rightfully so) since dual dom. What are teams running to counter the VoR-Soul Bind build and axe thumpers? Of course there's a thread on the hex build with ideas, but no team builds. This one counters it with a fortress monk and empathetic removal ranger but the trade off looks quite severe, no prots and no magebane to punch through dual stance monks.

Teh Jace · Aug 24, 2008, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by |Readem|

Feel free to give suggestions Jace. Since nearly everyone is running hexes lately, I merely modded the build to counter it. Purge is already listed as a common variant on the monk bar. I am interested in what you are running to counter such said gimmicks (hexway/dual RaO/zzZ; apart from pious-purge monk).

U know what I meaned when I said that pvxwiki was maintaned by ppl who had no clue?
That site is a great thing for all newbies who wanna start with pvp in safe way (e.g. not getting owned everytime) without reading tons of skills (70% of them pvp useless). It teaches them how to press 1 2 3 (and 4 when RaO ended) BUT it doesn't tell them to stop running such a build after they are familiar with pvp basics.
That site has a big responsibility cuz every single noob is redirected to pvxwiki and told to grab a build there. That site basically educates ppl but simply in a wrong way.

The result?
High ranked ppl who earned their titles without lame have to roll over 10 RaO teams, defeat 10 hex spammers and destroy 5 shove spikers in order to ENJOY 5 MINUTES OF GAME by playing vs a balanced team.

4vs4 is simply too much limited format so ur question "what do u run" has rly no meaning.

Ofc I can't order admins of pvxwiki to stop ruining the game cuz it would be rly silly. I think pvxwiki is doing a great job at showing noob ppl the basics and everyone should play what he/she likes but as I said. The wiki should eventually educate ppl not to run such braindead builds after they are able to somehow compete in pvp

|Readem| · Aug 24, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

Well, it was merely a question regarding the current balanced build you prefer running (that counters hexway/ect). Gimmicks will always exist; PvX Wiki or not. Whether it be holder's in HA, tri-smite in TA, or recall sin-split on frozen; it doesn't matter. Although I resigned long ago (due to myself being unable to cope with the sheer ignorance exhibited by the PvX community), I still feel partially obligated to it. No one should be burdened with the task of teaching scrubs how to PvP; that is something they have to do for themselves. If builds are becoming such a problem, that skill is no longer needed to be successful, wouldn't that indicate poor game design? All I have to say is this: Welcome to Build Wars.

Teh Jace · Aug 24, 2008, 10:38 AM // 10:38

I'm not saying PvX wiki is responsible for all tards. But it definitely is a tard factory. Imo small changes like balanced builds with bolded headline and not buried under 100 feet of gimmick bullshit would help.

I can say TA and HA suffer the most while gvg (high rating) is relatively ok. Back in time at champ range we met only meow with bspike otherwise it was almost gimmick free. But the situation in TA is rly crappy (HA is allright for me cuz infusing vs rspike is at least fun).

As for the current balanced build.. I play ranger with emp and lightning reflexes instead of pin down. Warr is sometimes axe, sometimes earthshaker hammer. Necro sometimes N/E, sometimes sh bash. And our monk is a fortress or Mo/D (if its karla). We don't change our roles so everyone is free to take what he/she wants.

The problem with TA (at least for me) is that u have to wait rly long to get a balanced opponent but then the waiting is rly worth it and balanced vs balanced is very addictive and the only reason why I'm not gvg/ha only.

Yes it's crappy design cuz TA doesnt offer any kind of reward so trying to run balanced makes u feel better only.

PyrAnkh · Aug 24, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Interesting, although im not sure if you need Empathic on your ranger. I think you should be okay with remove hex or pure sig.

Hundbert · Aug 24, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

It's nice vs the hex build.
R/p + Soul bind nec + Vision of regret mes + monk.

Foe · Aug 24, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Heavy Blow Is Big Damage
The 1st Person To Run Mighty+heavy Will Be Crowned King Of Europe

Chaos Rofl Copter · Aug 24, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by arienrhode

Noticed the wiki build for TA balanced was modified a few days ago, with a grasping dev hammer, empathetic removal ranger, CE nec and dual stance monk.

[build=OQYTks4O5ZsAWOLMlWBf1wKAA]
[build=OgMTcZcmzxM+rnNWGVzjBxIAA]
[build=OAFSY4DTSVHCMiNCJgVCrFCAA]
[build=OwEU043BxaSNgaECE+DQg1E4F6FA]

Looks slightly more interesting than the WoD meta but I'm curious what your thoughts are on this build vs. hex pressure builds and dual monk, which still seems playable without smiter's boon.

=|

IMO this version -> is wayyyyyy better....
W/E 12+1+1 Hammer | 11+1 Strength | 6 Earth
[Enraging Charge][Earth Shaker][Flail][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bulls Strike][grasping earth][rez sig]
R/MO 12+1+1 Expertise | 8+1 Wilderness | 10+1 Marks
[Distracting Shot][Debilitating Shot][Magebane Shot][Apply Poison][Natural Stride][Mending Touch][Remove hex][rez sig]
N/ME 12+1+1 Curse | 9+1 SR | 9 Inspiration
[Foul feast][Plague sending][corrupt enchantment][Defile Defenses][faintheartedness][inspired hex][revealed hex][rez sig]
MO/W 12+1+1 Heal | 12+1 Divine | 3 Tact
[patient spirit][signet of rejuv][word of healing][vigorous spirit][spotless mind][cure hex][shield bash][Bonetti's Defense]

sLiceR · Aug 24, 2008, 07:11 PM // 19:11

inspired hex against soul binds could be interesting

|Readem| · Aug 24, 2008, 07:49 PM // 19:49

the inspired necro is definitely an intriguing notion.

Seraphim of Chaos · Aug 24, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

There's no such thing as TA balanced, so don't even try.

urania · Aug 24, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Rofl Copter

=|

IMO this version -> is wayyyyyy better....
W/E 12+1+1 Hammer | 11+1 Strength | 6 Earth
[Enraging Charge][Earth Shaker][Flail][Crushing Blow][Hammer Bash][Bulls Strike][grasping earth][rez sig]
R/MO 12+1+1 Expertise | 8+1 Wilderness | 10+1 Marks
[Distracting Shot][Debilitating Shot][Magebane Shot][Apply Poison][Natural Stride][Mending Touch][Remove hex][rez sig]
N/ME 12+1+1 Curse | 9+1 SR | 9 Inspiration
[Foul feast][Plague sending][corrupt enchantment][Defile Defenses][faintheartedness][inspired hex][revealed hex][rez sig]
MO/W 12+1+1 Heal | 12+1 Divine | 3 Tact
[patient spirit][signet of rejuv][word of healing][vigorous spirit][spotless mind][cure hex][shield bash][Bonetti's Defense]

baically, vs 2 melees, ur nec will get kd locked and trained to death - unless u make ur warr snare them and try running after an unsnared monk or some other softie then. i do like inspired hex (only 1) on the nec tho. inspiring elites is fun fun.

however,no veil on monk is fail.

the_deSKtructor · Aug 25, 2008, 07:55 AM // 07:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

baically, vs 2 melees, ur nec will get kd locked and trained to death - unless u make ur warr snare them and try running after an unsnared monk or some other softie then. i do like inspired hex (only 1) on the nec tho. inspiring elites is fun fun.

however,no veil on monk is fail.

as long as you have someone that can remove diversions and other nasty stuff from you it's kinda fine to not have veil (and this have plenty of off monk hex removal). Tho veil is always nice to make ranger's job far easier.

Barkeep · Aug 25, 2008, 09:43 AM // 09:43

Overkill on hex-removal. On both builds posted...

If you take empathic on the ranger, drop spotless on the monk. If you take revealed/inspired on the necro, resign if you dont meet hexway. This thread is supposed to be about "balanced", not about a pure counter to hexway.

With inspired/revealed on the necro your warrior is either forced to lineback all day long, or you can pray that nobody wants to attack your necro. Because if somebody does. There's no way you can stop him.

Warriorbuild looks fine, ranger looks fine, although I do not like the attributes. Necro should have shield bash instead of inspired and insidious or rend/rip instead of revealed. Monk should spec a bit more into tactics and bring disciplined instead of bonettis, and veil instead of cure.

To be honest, when I look at the builds you guys posted. I honestly doubt if you guys ever play this build at all..

Teh Jace · Aug 25, 2008, 10:28 AM // 10:28

N/Me with 1 anti melee skill only is a bullshit. I think he just made it up or he fought RA leftovers only. Or maybe his warrior is one of those gay style warriors who camp frontliners 24/7.

We keep running retarded hex-removal overkill: emp on ranger and cure hex, veil and purge signet on monk. It works cuz our ranger is untouchable (nat stride + light reflexes), necro has grasping earth, warr has grasping earth and monk has pious concentration and shield of force but no guardian. I think it's a bit over the top but I was told to stfu

Srsly vs every hexway it's autowin, cond pressure ceased to exist long time ago and 2 warrs or RaO tards are beatable with dual grasping and some anti melee hexes of our necro.

Overall I think our build is weird and I don't like it but it proved to work very well. I regulary play with 3 grps with different setups (sometimes 10 and more skills completely different) and this one is the best.

urania · Aug 25, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Jace

I think it's a bit over the top but I was told to stfu

who told you to shut up?!

moko · Aug 25, 2008, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by urania

who told you to shut up?!

nazi karla did! :P